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[新闻] 數字介面新突破

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#1 14-3-16 16:10

數字介面新突破


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metric halo 在 MusikMesse 宣佈usb 介面大突破,可處理多達1024聲道,兼容mac, windows, linux, ios 等介面。

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=584657858292385

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=584662884958549

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#2 14-3-16 16:29
BJ Buchalter presents new products at Musikmesse agoMetric Halo developer BJ Buchalter says in the video below about the following new Metric Halo products:
  • Metric Halo goes USB. thus USB is for all are available MIO interfaces. Metric Halo has not let it take to develop a specific audio transport and be equipped with an independent audio clock ("sure clock" at up to 96 I / O channels).
    Yet that's not all. Here are other new features:
  • MH router : In the center of the action is a 1024 x 1024 routing matrix, without the need for DSP + resources are consumed. The whole thing at 192kHz sampling rate and with a sample latency. The respective system with several million devices sees it from all of a piece.
  • MH Link : communication protocol with 128 I / O channels per port / node, transport via Ethernet cable (Cat 5 or higher), multiple devices directly in MH router combined without "Aggregate Device". Again, with a sample latency (and with simultaneous transfer of clock data). For example, a sample from the input of a MIO to the output of another has a total of only 4 samples latency.
    Cat 5 cables are electrically isolated with transformers and thus prevent ground loops. Cable lengths of up to 100 meters are possible.
    Moreover, integration of MADI, ADAT, AES / EBU, Analog. This principle quite different transport routes can be adapted very quickly and flexibly to the respective application.
Still not enough?
  • • The USB interface at several points of a MIO structure allows multiple computers to be connected and exchange data via MH link with each other.
  • • The USB interface enables the integration of different computer platforms, including Apple OS X, Apple iOS, Windows and Linux. The USB interface turns the connected systems as "class-compliant device" before, so for simple I / O operation, no driver is required.

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#3 14-3-16 17:45
神奇的metric halo 好几年没有什么动作了

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#4 14-3-16 18:17
過去幾年在攪插件,這次弄了個usb介面,window,linux,ios 都可接上,共1024聲道,又可用光纖將不同電腦連接一起,老外都說是突破性發展,但真正硬件仍未展出。

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#5 14-3-16 18:33
昨天在国外的朋友告知我这个消息,你比我先发到论坛,呵呵,很期待啊,好像这次的技术拓展是德国部门先爆出来的,难道硬件的研发从美国研发到德国了,现在就是不知道真正发布的时间和升级的费用,不过国外的metric fans已经按耐不住在骚动了。

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#6 14-3-16 18:44
之前保密是要在德國展覽會弄個效果吧。不過人算不如天算,產品貨運出了問題,不能如期展出,只能口講。

4840
#7 14-3-16 23:21
期待。请教楼上各位老师,metric的dsp插件是个什么水准,没用过uad之类,无法比较。

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#8 14-3-16 23:35
他家mio自帶的插件已經很好,vst 的沒用過,有說是更上一層樓,但因要用i-lok較麻煩。

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#9 14-3-17 01:35
原帖Xl2525 于 14-3-16 23:21 发表
期待。请教楼上各位老师,metric的dsp插件是个什么水准,没用过uad之类,无法比较。


谢老师您好,十年前和您交易过LUNA2声卡,当时您帮我解答了很多问题,甚是感激!今天非常高兴能有幸能回答你的问题!

过去几年我也很好奇HALO的插件到底什么水平,后来有幸用过AAX版。以我个人愚见,点评几句,说错勿怪:

他们家的看家插件就是通道条,Channel Strip。我试用的第3版,在DSP领域来说,压缩一般化,EQ还可以,中上水准。在NATIVE领域来说,那都属于顶尖级别。重点说下EQ,声音中性,素质不错,不会像UAD的EQ在声音上有方向性的音染。我用它过了一些音频,留了样本,您要是有兴趣,私下发给您听听,就知道它的档次了。单打独斗,UAD的EQ没一个是HALO通道条的对手,因为UAD的EQ们各擅善场,个体来说的话,某频段特别强,相应的另一些频段就特别弱,实力均衡不带音染,BX EQ算比较好的,但还是不如HALO通道条(BX EQ也有NATIVE版本,音色取向和UAD版略有区别,但素质相当)。不过话又两说,只要掌握了UAD EQ们的声音特性,扬长避短的叠加起来用,HALO通道条EQ是完全无法抵挡的,无论素质还是个性,都大败亏输。总个结,干快活,HALO通道条是个不错的选择。

Multiband Dynamics/Expander,多通道动态,这类插件我不喜欢用,要不就是不会用。UAD也有类似插件,延迟高又很吃DSP,我不会用呢,发挥不出它的威力;当常规压缩器用嘛,无论HALO还是UAD,压出来的声音都很一般,数码化,没味道,完全可以用我精选的、熟悉的单段压缩解决战斗,省时省力,声音还更好。

Character,模拟电路音染。这个插件有失水准,声音假假的,数码,要和NATIVE比呢,还算将就,但要和UAD比音染,那它就是找刺激了。客观说,虽然UAD音染和真机比起来确实存在差距,但是软件模拟高阶硬件音染这件事,我找不出比UAD做得更好的,这也算是UAD插件的最大卖点。

The Precision DeEsser,消齿音。UAD也有这类插件,我用得很爽,对比了几个同类NATIVE插件,都远远不如UAD。UAD消齿音很精准,不会误伤其它频段,NATIVE消齿音插件都会对高频有不同程度的破坏,严重的比如SPL会直接让声音变的不通透。不过很遗憾没拿HALO的去做对比,UAD的已经让我太满意了。

Transient Control,控制音头音尾。UAD的SPL TRANSIENT DESIGNER比它好,高频透低频不脏,也比同名NATIVE插件要好。不过这类插件我很少用。

Halo Verb,混响。希望越大失望越大,这个插件简直是砸HALO的招牌,我将它定位在中低档NATIVE混响的级别,NATIVE混响就能找出几个比它好的。UAD的纯数字混响在NATIVE阵营能立足,但在DSP阵营算是相对弱的,都比这个好太多。

以上心得体会,一家之言,希望能帮到谢老师!
观众反应

2057
#10 14-3-17 02:11

回复 do500 在 #9 的 pid=4139998 的贴子

顶楼上这位朋友,很不错的技术分析帖子,我没用上metric halo的东西,希望不要出现期待越大失望越大。
还想借这个帖子问一下,还有没有用过metric halo dsp软件和native 插件的朋友,可否就 do500 的帖子,展开一次分享和讨论啊? 谢谢,本人也期待做个体验。

[ 本帖最后由 solarduan2010 于 14-3-17 02:14 编辑 ]

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#11 14-3-17 04:19

回复 hkborn 在 #1 的 pid=4139565 的贴子

关注最新动态中!如果真的如他们所说的那么神奇,音频领域要改朝换代了!

2605
#12 14-3-17 09:04
学习了

4840
#13 14-3-17 11:24
感谢do500兄弟的详细评测,没想到这么多年了还记得我,很高兴。我用的是metric +dsp版本,不知与au或aax是否品质相同,不过我最近都是用它来混音的。

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#14 14-3-21 14:52
Hi Folks,As you may know, at the Musikmesse last week, we announced a technology preview of the tech that we will be releasing in an upcoming upgrade for the Mobile I/O Family.
If you did not see or hear the announcement, you can watch a video of the presentation here (note the first 20 seconds or so are in German, but we switch to English after that):
Part 1:https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=584657858292385
Part 2:https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=584662884958549
To summarize:
We have announce a set of Core technologies that will form the basis of an upgrade for existing MIO's, LIOs and ULN-8s as well as the basis for future products. These Core technologies are comprised of the following:
1) USB2 Class Audio with MH sureClock transport.      
- This provides 192 channel (96in/96out) communication at 1x rates      
- The audio clock and the USB transport clock are decoupled in HW
2) MH Router      
- This provides 1024x1024 channel router @ 192k on every unit      
- The router transports audio in one sample      
- All audio sources and sinks are connected via the router      
- 1024 channels is large enough that it is effectively infinite3) MH Link      
- Each unit has 2 MHLink ports      
- Each MHLink port provides 128 channels of audio in and out @ 192k        
- Audio is transported with 1 sample of latency        
- This is built on the Gigabit Ethernet Physical layer               
- Connections are on Cat 5               
- Cables are inexpensive and ubiquitous               
- Cables can run 100m between nodes               
- Connections are transformer coupled, so no ground loops      
- Fully integrated with the MH Router        
- Transports audio clock4) MH Link + MH Router Enabling Technology:        
- No more aggregate devices      
- No more legacy I/O to bridge mix busses from box to box      
- Makes all boxes look like one box to the mixer and the computer
5) MH Router integrates all I/O in the unit      
- USB        
- MH Link        
- ADAT      
- AES/EBU      
- SPDIF      
- Analog      
- MADI        
- Not all products will have all I/O types
6) In practice, the combination of MH Link and MH Router mean that audio can be transported from the input point on one box to the output point on the next boxwith 4 samples of latency, and each additional MHLink hop adds an additional 2 samples of latency. Since all boxes have two MH Link ports, you can chain boxes as you like. Unlike FireWire and USB, the MHLink is not a bus, so each link has the full bandwidth available to it in both directions. Since we integrate Automatic delay compensation into the system, effectively each box that you add to the system adds 2 samples of system latency.For example, if you have 8 boxes to implement a 64 channel system, the system will add 16 samples of overall latency to ensure that all channels are aligned regardless of which box it comes from. This amounts to 333 microseconds of additional latency if you are operating at 48k. At higher sample rates, the latency scales down.The presence of the router on every box means that any input on any of the boxes can be routed or multed to any output on any of the boxes. This includes the USB, which could be connected to different computers on different boxes
.7) Since the computer transport is USB Class Audio, the units can be used with any host that supports USB Class Audio -- this includes Mac OS X, iOS, Windows and Linux.
8) Of course, in keeping with our commitment to future-proof products, this is an upgrade for every FireWire interface that we have ever shipped.There have been many questions about what we discussed and I wanted to clear as many of them up as a can. Please find a bit of a FAQ below. In addition, we'll be posting a tech talk that goes into some additional detail. The talk has been recorded, and it is being edited now. We'll post a link once it has been posted to 你吐吧.
Here is the list with the most asked questions:***
Q1: I don't understand; is this an upgrade or a different box?
This is an upgrade. It applies to every unit we have ever shipped. 13 years ago, we said future proof, and we meant it.***
Q2a: USB 2.0? not USB 3, Thunderbolt etc.?
The USB 2 is what we consider to be the baseline for the upgrade and future products. There are a few important points as to why we choose USB2 as the baseline:  
1) Every single device you would want to use these with supports USB2 and USB2     Class audio.  
2) Neither USB 3 nor Thunderbolt have class implementations for audio - so that      means that custom drivers are required, and for the platforms that do not      support custom drivers, that means that you simply cannot interoperate.
3) We have been able to implement an exceptionally capable transport layer on top      of USB2; we can do 96 channels in and out at 48k (192 channels total) which      far exceeds the needs of most of our customers.  
4) We have this all working now.        That does not mean that we will not implement USB3 or Thunderbolt. It just means that we are not ready to *talk* about it yet.***
Q2b: But if you use all the UBS2 bandwidth how do I add a USB drive to the USB bus?
On the Mac (at least) each USB connector is on its own bus. So you can use the different connectors. That being said, if you use a USB3 hub, the USB2 and USB3 busses are actually completely separate (on the same connector) -- so you can attach the interface on USB2 and a USB3 drive, and the two devices will both get full bandwidth.***
Q2c: Multiple boxes on one USB 3.0 port using a hub might come in very handy…You don't need to do this because of MHLink -- multiple boxes on the USB bus gets us back to the situation with FireWire -- where each box is independent and you need an aggregate to use them together. MHLink aggregates in HW.  ***
Q3a: Will the old FW ports remain, or will everything be swapped so that only the new USB/MH Link interfaces remain?
Everything will be swapped. All the computers that support FireWire also support USB2, so there is no compatibility break, and maintaining support for FireWire would increase the end-user cost of the upgrade.***
Q3b: Will USB2 bus-power a Mobile I/O?
No.***
Q3c: Will USB3 bus-power a Mobile I/O?
No.***
Q3d: Will ThunderBolt bus-power a Mobile I/O?
No.***

Q4: When I connect multiple computers which will show the Miomixer? All of them or is one the master?
We are still working on this, so we are going to defer answering it until we have a more complete story to tell.***

Q5: Can I record to two computers at the same time for redundancy?
Yes.***

Q6: What's all this about 1 sample of latency and USB?

The USB latency is higher than one sample (obviously). USB2 uses 125 microsecond isoch periods. Latency on the USB bus is quantized in units of isoch periods. In the sureClock implementation, we need to have 2 packets plus a couple of samples of safety offset on the input and output side of the USB. The 2 packets correspond to 250 microseconds of latency in each direction. On the computer side, there is some additional transport latency due to the way that the USB hardware works -- 2 or 3 packets worth. So that is an additional 250-375 microseconds. On top of that you have the audio buffer latency that is determined by the size of the audio buffer you choose in your host -- that's going to be the same regardless of the transport protocol. All told the transport latency adds up to around 1 - 1.5 ms (maybe a little bit more) at all sample rates. This is consistent with what we were able to achieve on FireWire.***

Q7: So very exciting - love the Ethernet connectivity - love to hear the details on USB in/out latencies. But isn't the 1 sample stuff is being taken way out of context?

It is a little bit, in that the USB <-> Computer latency is higher, and is generally dominated by the buffer size you choose for the host. But the latency is 2 samples per hop (1 sample for input to the MH Router and 1 sample for output from the MH Router) on the box -> box connection, which is much, much lower than anything that can be achieved with other high-bandwidth transports and allows for the aggregation of boxes in a way that we cannot achieve on USB, FireWire or something like Dante. The latency would be achievable on something like MADI, but MADI does not have the channel counts that we can attain with MHLink, nor does it have the bandwidth for control data, and it has much more expensive and less generally available cabling.

[ 本帖最后由 hkborn 于 14-3-21 15:04 编辑 ]

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#15 14-3-21 14:59
*** Q8: How is MADI integrated?The tech is done. The realization in specific products is still being determined. ***
Q9: Is this a real ethernet connection? If yes, wouldn't it make sense to connect the device via ethernet to your pc?
Yes it is a real ethernet connection. It is possible to connect via the computer. That being said, MHLink generates packets at a much higher rate than computers really want to deal with, and there are real challenges in getting the latency down to what we wish to achieve when using an ethernet connection that is controlled and shared with a GP OS with a full networking stack. In addition, while it may not be the case for PCs, in Mac and iOS, current machines do not ship with Ethernet connectors on the hardware, so you are back to needing an adapter. That is not the case for USB.***

Q10: How can USB be superior to FW in aspects of CPU load and performance?

Modern USB HW uses the same DMA engines that FireWire used. All the data transport is done via DMA, and does not require CPU intervention. In addition, USB audio transport is headerless, so there is no need to do payload extraction and header pre-pending for USB (whereas it is required for FireWire), so the actual CPU intervention is lower for USB than for Firewire.***

Q11a: Are the 96 channels a total channel count?
It is 96 in and 96 out at 1x (44/48) rates (so 192 total). For each doubling of the sample rate, the total number of channels goes down by half. So 2x rates are 48in/48out and 4x rates are 24in/24out.***

Q11b: Is this tied to the number of boxes?
No -- the USB channel I/O is controllable independently from the number of boxes, so, for example, if you are mixing in the MIO mixer on one box, you would be able to do so with a much higher number of output channels from your DAW, without having to add additional boxes (for channel count). Depending on what you were doing, you may need more boxes for DSP.***

Q12: Why is that high channel count not achievable with Firewire?

There are two components for overall transport performance - the capabilities of the computer and the capabilities of the device. The current MIO hardware implements the FireWire protocol layer on a DSP, and  a significant amount of the overall limitations are due to CPU and bus bandwidth limitations on that HW. In addition, on the Computer side of things, the number of DMA contexts that is required to be supported by a FireWire controller is fairly low (we pretty much only guaranteed of having 4 input DMA and 4 output DMA contexts). So those combined together limit the ability to stream the theoretical maximum channels. In contrast, with sureClock, we have implemented the USB transport layer in hardware (without a software component), and that allows us to reach the actual channel bandwidth of USB. In addition, on the Computer Side, USB controllers are required to support DMA for all endpoints up to the bandwidth limit. So bottlenecks are removed on both sides of the USB. While we could implement the sureClock on top of FireWire as well, at this stage of the game, there really is no point, because every machine with FireWire also has USB, but many machines with USB do not have FireWire.***

Q13: What's the timeframe?

Some time this year. We'll firm that up when we can.***

Q14: What's the cost?

Not yet determined, but it will be affordable.***

Q15: Can we have exact features?
Of course not! As Gustav Graves said in "Die Another Day" -- "It's not a secret. It's a surprise."***

Q16: and how it's going to become available ?
For existing users, it will be an upgrade like the 2d Card was; new masterboard and new backpanel. It will be field-installable, and we will also offer a factory upgrade service.For new units, it will be included as part of the unit.***

Q17: Are there pictures?
Not at the present time. The development hardware we have is not representative of the final product.***

Q18: How and where is the +dsp available and how do we control it.

In class compliant mode especially.All of the processing you have come to know and love on our hardware will be available on the new hardware - simply with more available DSP. For example, the Firewire transport engine consumed all of one DSP and about 15% of the the other DSP on the 2d Hardware. sureClock uses no DSP at all. The MH Router would consume 100% of the 2d DSP; on the new hardware it uses no DSP at all. As far as the specific forward looking aspects of your question -- we are still working on this aspect, and we'll share more when we can.***

Q10: I only have one box -- why do I care about this?
Four reasons:  
1) Interoperability with whatever platform you want to use at the moment.  
2) More of what you already love about your box -- more processing, more     channels, more plugins.  
3) Easy expandability -- if you need more in the future, you can add more     seamlessly.
4) The new processor architecture has a minimum of 1000 times the available     memory as compared to the 2d Card. This means that the memory limitations      that occur on 2d are simply gone.If you have further questions, please post them and we'll do our best to answer when we can.Best regards,B.J. Buchalter

[ 本帖最后由 hkborn 于 14-3-21 15:02 编辑 ]
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