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我来解释一小下
11th和sus当然是有一个相同的音级
在小和弦中是相同的音高 在大和弦中不是相同的音高
比如
D min11的11th 是G
Dsus的挂留 也是G
C Maj11的11th 是F#
Csus的挂留 却是F
所以通常大和弦的11th是升11音
而sus则是普通的4音 不升不降
小和弦的这两个和弦的音符是一样音高的
还有就是
不管听觉一样 或者不一样
这两个和弦的用处是不一样的
带有11th的和弦的用法和理解 与正常的MAJOR和弦没有任何区别
比如说我们在演奏流行音乐的时候 可以弹大七、大九 那也就可以弹大十一
是一样的
但是sus挂留和弦 只是用再MAJOR之前的和弦 不能当作一般的MAJOR和弦来使用
所以 即使有时候听起来一样 虽然用的地方不一样 但还是要不同的理解
11th和sus当然是有一个相同的音级
在小和弦中是相同的音高 在大和弦中不是相同的音高
比如
D min11的11th 是G
Dsus的挂留 也是G
C Maj11的11th 是F#
Csus的挂留 却是F
所以通常大和弦的11th是升11音
而sus则是普通的4音 不升不降
小和弦的这两个和弦的音符是一样音高的
还有就是
不管听觉一样 或者不一样
这两个和弦的用处是不一样的
带有11th的和弦的用法和理解 与正常的MAJOR和弦没有任何区别
比如说我们在演奏流行音乐的时候 可以弹大七、大九 那也就可以弹大十一
是一样的
但是sus挂留和弦 只是用再MAJOR之前的和弦 不能当作一般的MAJOR和弦来使用
所以 即使有时候听起来一样 虽然用的地方不一样 但还是要不同的理解
Sedar说的对， 属11和小11都用原位4，大11用升4。
属11其实等同属9挂4（11=9sus4), 小11等同小9挂4(m11=m9sus4)，这两个在流行乐里都用得超多。至于要简化，还是老原则，先干掉5音。
大11的情况比较特殊，如果所有音弹全的情况下和声色彩很模糊，用在印象派和爵士里还好，用在流行乐里就比较另类了，我只在Minnie Riperton（就是唱红Lovin' you那首歌的歌手）的Perfect Angel里听过一次，刚听的时候感觉挺别扭， 要是一般人听八成以为你弹错音了。如果要把大11简化那可就没有定式了， 你弹1-5-9-#4和1-3-#4-7感觉就很不一样，前一个倾向于II/I的感觉（比如Joe Satriani的Flying in a blue dream)，后一个倾向于II13/I的感觉， 所以只好看你的上下文连接决定了。
属11其实等同属9挂4（11=9sus4), 小11等同小9挂4(m11=m9sus4)，这两个在流行乐里都用得超多。至于要简化，还是老原则，先干掉5音。
大11的情况比较特殊，如果所有音弹全的情况下和声色彩很模糊，用在印象派和爵士里还好，用在流行乐里就比较另类了，我只在Minnie Riperton（就是唱红Lovin' you那首歌的歌手）的Perfect Angel里听过一次，刚听的时候感觉挺别扭， 要是一般人听八成以为你弹错音了。如果要把大11简化那可就没有定式了， 你弹1-5-9-#4和1-3-#4-7感觉就很不一样，前一个倾向于II/I的感觉（比如Joe Satriani的Flying in a blue dream)，后一个倾向于II13/I的感觉， 所以只好看你的上下文连接决定了。
yahoo justjazz版主的答复
我在yahoo justjazz 邮件社区里面得到的版主Marc Sabatella关于11和弦voicing的答复
和Sedar, Lobo的解释基本一致，不过更针对爵士乐把位。有哪位朋友需要的时候我再翻译吧, 这几天面试。
Re: [justjazz] Are sus and 11th chords the same ? and their voicings?
Well, as with any chord, there isn't just one. Perhaps the easiest way
to get into these chord if you are already familiar with basic voicing
for dominant seventh chords if to use the exact same voicing but replace
the 3rd with a 4th (aka 11th). For instance, a very common C7 voicing
is E A Bb D. Make this F A Bb D and you've got a quite useful C7sus
voicing.
Another common way to voice sus chords like C7sus is to consider them as
slash chord of the form Bb/C or Gm7/C - then simply create a voicing for
the Bb or Gm7 chord. In fact, the voicing I gave above happens to work
in this respect as well, but then, so would any other combination of
notes that suggested a Bb (or Bbmaj7) chord or a Gm7 chord - as long as
someone is covering the root in the bass, it will give the right effect.
> And are they really the same chord?(C11 and Csus).
Well, we can draw technical distinctions between them - the C11
literally contains a 3rd while C7sus does not. But in practice, this
distinction isn't important. We can still use a third melodically over
either chord. And in voicing them, we're unlikely to use that third in
either case.
--------------
Marc Sabatella
marc@outsideshore.com
The Outside Shore
Music, art, & educational materials:
http://www.outsideshore.com/
[ Last edited by 你的大脸猫 on 2005-3-5 at 02:38 ]
和Sedar, Lobo的解释基本一致，不过更针对爵士乐把位。有哪位朋友需要的时候我再翻译吧, 这几天面试。
Re: [justjazz] Are sus and 11th chords the same ? and their voicings?
Well, as with any chord, there isn't just one. Perhaps the easiest way
to get into these chord if you are already familiar with basic voicing
for dominant seventh chords if to use the exact same voicing but replace
the 3rd with a 4th (aka 11th). For instance, a very common C7 voicing
is E A Bb D. Make this F A Bb D and you've got a quite useful C7sus
voicing.
Another common way to voice sus chords like C7sus is to consider them as
slash chord of the form Bb/C or Gm7/C - then simply create a voicing for
the Bb or Gm7 chord. In fact, the voicing I gave above happens to work
in this respect as well, but then, so would any other combination of
notes that suggested a Bb (or Bbmaj7) chord or a Gm7 chord - as long as
someone is covering the root in the bass, it will give the right effect.
> And are they really the same chord?(C11 and Csus).
Well, we can draw technical distinctions between them - the C11
literally contains a 3rd while C7sus does not. But in practice, this
distinction isn't important. We can still use a third melodically over
either chord. And in voicing them, we're unlikely to use that third in
either case.
--------------
Marc Sabatella
marc@outsideshore.com
The Outside Shore
Music, art, & educational materials:
http://www.outsideshore.com/
[ Last edited by 你的大脸猫 on 2005-3-5 at 02:38 ]